Event Name - 021-- Development of an Online, Two-Campus Degree Program (SDR824087) Thomas Smyth: Many students would prefer all online course work. Thomas Smyth: Your idea of a "Weekend College" should help you in the highly competetive marketplace of degree programs. Thomas Smyth: (Pardon my typos) Thomas Smyth: We have considered something similar. Patrick Ashton: What is the mix of your students? Traditional/nontraditional? Do you offer the ftf courses in the evenings? Thomas Smyth: Pat, you cietd the "enthusiasm" of the faculty that I mentioned in the paper. This is an Educational Technology degree program, so it helps that the facultty re technology savvy already. Thomas Smyth: Pat, because this is a graduate program our primary audience is K-12 educators, although we have several enrolled who are from the industry (graphic artists, e.g.) and from hgiher education. Thomas Smyth: All ftf courses are offered in the evening ( 5:00 - 7:45 p.m.) Patrick Ashton: so the ftf courses are all evenings? Patrick Ashton: whoops! you're quicker than I am! :) Thomas Smyth: Yes.the ftf courses are all evenings? Patrick Ashton: You say you have considered offering courses on the weekends. Do you have any market research that indicates people would enroll then? Iskandar Hack: I have a quick question. Are they any courses in the program that students have no choice but to take online? Or do you always have ftf version of every course. Thomas Smyth: (I like some chat/IM programs that show you when the other person is "speaking" [talking]) so that one can wait. We'll just fend for ourselves herer which is fine.] Thomas Smyth: Islander (back to Pat in a second) - We offer only one version of the course, i.e., online only or ftf only. Iskandar Hack: okay - go back to Pat and I'll bring this up later. Thomas Smyth: Pat, we do not have the markt research. Our anecdotal evidence is provided by a competing program (actually two) in the region which offeres the entire degree through once-a-month Saturday classes [no comment on quality at this time]. Thomas Smyth: :) Thomas Smyth: The Saturday classes are very popular with some students. Thomas Smyth: personally, I believe that should be family time [although I've never been accused of being a traditionalist/conservative] :) Patrick Ashton: Our Weekend College is very successful at the undergrad level; Thomas Smyth: What hours during the weekend? Patrick Ashton: they're after us to move some grad courses/programs in. Patrick Ashton: we start at 4:30 on Friday. Prime hours are 9-12 on Sat.; 1-4 on Sat; and 12-3 on Sun Thomas Smyth: Is there resitance to moving the grad programs to that schedule? Patrick Ashton: The issue is are enough faculty willing to teach on the weekends to make the degree program viable. Patrick Ashton: that's where the distance option is important; Thomas Smyth: understandable. Just double their salaries for weekend work... Thomas Smyth: Distanmce option would be quite viable. Patrick Ashton: I welcome you to be our new provost!!! Thomas Smyth: Most of my students do their work for my online courses on thw weekends anyway. Thomas Smyth: I normally have all weekely assignments due by midnight on Monday. Patrick Ashton: do you offer real-time chat office hours? gregg elkins: I thought you cut faculty salaries in half for weekend work. ;) Thomas Smyth: I do not offer real-time chat. But... Thomas Smyth: I am nearly always available via email and we discussion board (both asynschronous)... Thomas Smyth: This has satisfied my stduents ...so far.. Iskandar Hack: Do you hold ftf office hours that students can see you? gregg elkins: I very seldom had any takers with synchronous chat. So I stopped having that as an option during office hours. Thomas Smyth: Yes, I do hold set ftf office hours for students, plus by appointment. Iskandar Hack: My experence as well gregg. Same here Thomas. Patrick Ashton: What are the enrollment maximums in your grad courses? Thomas Smyth: Gregg, same for me. I even added the option of video chat (and provided laptops with cameras), but few took advantage of chat. Thomas Smyth: We cap most of our graduate courses at 20... Thomas Smyth: anything beyond that is a challenge for DE. Thomas Smyth: [iskander, I clicked the stoplight to begin this session. Is it being recrded?] gregg elkins: 20 sounds huge to me. I don't see how you handle that. Do you have a room full of grad assts? gregg elkins: looks like it is to me, being recorded. Iskandar Hack: Yes, it should be - but to be safe at the end of the session click on the File and Save as - this will save the chat session in a text file that you can email to me as a backup. Thomas Smyth: Gregg, I expected the opposite response. 20 is manageable but the high limit. Thomas Smyth: Thanks Iskandar. Patrick Ashton: true that. I teach 80 students in two sections of ftf intro sociology that is web-supported. All assignments are electronic. And it is just about killing me!! gregg elkins: I guess I need tips from Thomas as to how to manage so many. It's always like have 20 independent studies now matter what I do. That is, if I give them the feedback and instruction they deserve. Thomas Smyth: Patrick - sounds challenging. I have found that online discussion via Blackboard disucssion board can be quite effective in addressing assignments. Thomas Smyth: peer critiques of works as well. Thomas Smyth: peer critique/evaluation of student work (to be clearer) Thomas Smyth: I'm surer you've read about the changing paradigm of instruction, especially as it is enhanced/suppoirted via online delivery of courses... Thomas Smyth: A major premise is that instruction becomes more stduent-centered and less instructor-centered. Thomas Smyth: Learning communities develop in which stdeunts learn from each other, from readings and experiences, and from the instructor. Thomas Smyth: I have found that moving to this model, although difficult at first, results in higher quality of stduent learning. Patrick Ashton: I agree. The trick is to make it so that it is not so much additional work that instructors get discouraged. gregg elkins: I have tried that and can implement it to some degree, but ;) when you see them floundering with one another, it's necessary to get them back on track. One of the challenges is keeping up with everytying they are doing. Especially in the IT field where so much is changing every second. Patrick Ashton: In my experience, it's definitely better for the students (if it's done right). gregg elkins: I also wonder about teacher evaluations, when the teacher is not seen as the "teacher". Patrick Ashton: Then the teacher evaluations become more relevant... gregg elkins: I think it probably depends greatly on the specific classes. Patrick Ashton: i.e., evaluation of the teacher as facilitator/designer/evaluator of learning experiences. Thomas Smyth: Patrick - Re:" I also wonder about teacher evaluations, when the teacher is not seen as the "teacher"..... I make it very clear at the beginning of the class about the "new" model that our learning community will be using... Thomas Smyth: this helps clarify stdeunts expectations about their role and mine. gregg elkins: Do you have students who are resistant to taking responsibilty/participating? Thomas Smyth: Gregg - Yes, they are quite normal in this regard! gregg elkins: lol Thomas Smyth: I monitor and evaluate their level of participation and alert them when things aren'g going so well. Patrick Ashton: i do too gregg elkins: I've done this and it becomes quite time consuming as well. ;) Thomas Smyth: As I have moved to a model of instruction that incorporates project-based learning, one of the challenges has been evaluation of individual performance within groups (this is not an uncommon problem as you know). Thomas Smyth: Hi scottw; gald you have joined us! Thomas Smyth: there's p[lenty of room up front :) Iskandar Hack: It seems to me that the problem is considerably worse with online course, because I never see the interaction between students. They seem to meet f2t offline, where as in a f2f class I will at least be able to witness the interaction between members of the group. Thomas Smyth: You're right about that, I. One solution is using the chat feature of Blackboard (or other) which archives the chat; hen the instructor can "see" the activity. Thomas Smyth: There is much offline interaction that the instructor never sees... Thomas Smyth: periodic progress reports and individual discussions with group members can assist in evaluating participation and progress. Thomas Smyth: Moving along... Iskandar Hack: My problem is that all of my online courses involve lab work that has to be done in the lab - in online course students arrange to meet using chat, and all of the real interaction is in the lab. I realize that this problem is unique to technical course. Thomas Smyth: Good point. Thomas Smyth: If you will indulge me... Thomas Smyth: I wil present a couple of more slides of my "talk." Thomas Smyth: OK everybody? Iskandar Hack: ok Thomas Smyth: Do I hear snoring in the back of the room? :) Thomas Smyth: Please take a look at slided #3. Thomas Smyth: Successes. Thomas Smyth: One of the benefits of this "joint" porgram... Thomas Smyth: *program... Thomas Smyth: is that there are two surprisingly different populations of stduents: Thomas Smyth: on one campus we have students who all are from the local area ( and thus it may be fair to say are fairly provincial); Thomas Smyth: then from the larger campus we have stduentas with more varied backgrounds and several in our classes who are actually in other programs, ofetn Ph.D. programs, and are enrolled in selected courses as electives and cognates... Thomas Smyth: thus, Thomas Smyth: when we offer an online course, for example, that inmcludes students from both campuses, the discussion and qualityof work is generally much higher. Thomas Smyth: This is a benefit of having a joint degree program. Thomas Smyth: There are others "successes," but I will move th "challenges." Thomas Smyth: Please see slide #4. Thomas Smyth: The accreditation issues mentioned, while not insurmountable, have been challenging... Thomas Smyth: With most accreditation now being assessment driven this has been a major focus of the program. We have moved to authentic assessment (in the form of rubric evaluation, for example) in our courses, and we require a program portfolio and defense (in lieu of a thesis) for graduation. Thomas Smyth: The technical challenges netioned have cause us to move away from 2-way video delivery of courses to exclusively online (for those specific courses). Some instructors use MS Producer to narrate Powerpoint slides and deliver lectures using streaming and/or CD delivery. Thomas Smyth: Slide #5 listst he URL for the program. please visit and let me know if you have any addidtional questions about the program that i can reply to via eamil [smyth@usca.edu]... Thomas Smyth: [and please pardon the annoying typos; I'm on a borrowed wondows pc (centra does not support Mac or Linux)] Iskandar Hack: Could you check slide 5 to show Iskandar Hack: it Thomas Smyth: Any questions? We have a few minutes remaining. Iskandar Hack: Do you ever get complants about courses only offered online vs f2f? Iskandar Hack: We have some course that are only online and some students complain about that. Thomas Smyth: Iskandar, very few at the graduate level. I had a student in this week complaining that an underraduate course I offer is only online. Thomas Smyth: More often we hear pleas for offering the entire deree program online. Iskandar Hack: That is interesting - we hear some of the same. Some students want all online, others complain when forced to take an online course. Thomas Smyth: Thanks Gregg, Pat, and especially Iskandar for working on this conference. I'll be here until 1:30 if there are additional questions/comments. gregg elkins: Thanks Thomas, I did not see an e-mail address on your paper, do you have contact info that you would want to share for future questions? Thomas Smyth: yes, Thomas Smyth: smyth@usca.edu gregg elkins: Thanks Thomas. I'm gregg@siu.edu if anyone ever needs to contact me. gregg elkins: Thanks again, goodbye all. Patrick Ashton: Thanks, Thomas, for your presentation. And thanks to Gregg and Iskander. Thomas Smyth: Thanks Pat. That was one hand clapping :)